Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog

Hi Shannon,
Demodex in dogs, when it is generalized, as it is in Oreo, can be a difficult disease to treat! In fact, 30 years ago a dog with generalized demodectic mange was usually euthanized because there was no effective treatment, and it was not known that it was due to a suppressed immune system.

As you have already found out from all of the research you have done, supporting the immune system is THE most important part of treatment!! NO more dog vaccinations AT ALL for Oreo. If rabies is due, please seek out the help of a holistic veterinarian to see about getting an exemption form so Oreo can be 'excused' from being vaccinated.

Demodex mange is NOT contagious to other animals nor to humans! Oreo already had the mites on his skin. In fact, all animals (and humans) have bacteria, mites and other 'organisms' living on the skin. With a healthy immune system, these organisms do not pose a threat, and there are no sores or lesions created.

When the immune system is compromised, for example by a dry dog food diet, too many vaccinations, taking cortisone or steroids, or ALL of the above result in an over population of mites and bacteria because the immune system is too weakened to keep them in check.

The treatment you mentioned so far (antibiotics, and topical lotion for the ears) are not specific treatments for Demodectic mange. The ingredient that is in the dog heartworm prevention - Heartgard, ivermectin - is what needs to be given.

At this time, I do not have a completely holistic treatment plan for generalized demodex. Therefore, I will advise you to go to your conventional veterinarian for injectable Ivermectin. You will give one injection (similar to giving him an insulin shot) every TWO weeks. Usually, this will take up to 6 to 8 weeks, so you would need to get 3 or 4 injections. (The dose is 1/10 cc per pound of body weight. If Oreo weighs about 40 lbs, he would need .4cc per each injection.)

Fortunately, since Oreo is part Beagle and Bluetick hound, he is not one of the breeds that are allergic to Ivermectin.

In between the weeks that he gets an injection of the Ivermectin, he should have an injection of B-vitamins plus B-12. Give 1/2 cc B-12 plus 1/4 cc of B-vitamin complex, Sub-Q.

STOP the Interceptor (heartworm preventive) medicine.

DO NOT use the Frontline. It didn't cause the demodex, but there are less toxic flea and tick products available. See our page on natural dog flea treatments for more information.

Continue the weekly to 2 times per week Tea tree oil baths, followed with the borax and peroxide. You might consider alternating with an oatmeal dog shampoo to help with the itching.

To be continued below....

(Continuation of Response to Shannon, for Oreo)

Clean his ears with green tea two times per week. Do not use the 'conventional' ointments that contain cortisone. (Tri-top or Postex)

Dr. Richard Pitcairn, in his book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, suggests that you "Apply fresh squeezed lemon juice, to the skin lesions." This helps acidify the skin and drive out the mites. If Oreo objects, you might try apple cider vinegar. And just apply it with a make-up sponge.

Dr. Pitcairn also suggests boosting the immune system by nutritional support with the addition of Vitamin C (buffered) 250-500 mg daily, (which is also available in raw meat, Zinc 15-30 mg daily, and Vitamin E 100 IU).

If the cost of Primal, Aunt Jeni's, Barf World, or some of the other raw diets are too expensive, then feed him canned - NOT dry - good quality dog food. Dog food that DOES NOT contain any artificial colors, preservatives, or by-products. Then you can add 1-2 TBSP of raw meat to each meal. DO NOT feed raw PORK or raw FISH. But you can include raw chicken, beef, turkey, or lamb.

If Oreo will not eat raw meat, you can cook it a little, so it is 'rare'. Be aware that the more it is cooked, the less Vitamin C will be available. Vitamin C is destroyed by heat.

He will also need Omega 3 fish oil for dogs added to his food, to help provide moisture, and to act as a natural anti-inflammatory. Add one 1,000 mg capsule to his food two times daily. This will benefit his skin and also any joint problems in his feet (or that foot he holds up).

As for the cedar chips in his outdoor dog house, would it be possible to make him an 'inside' dog? I do not think there is any problem with cedar chips, but being outside in the winter in West Virginia would definitely cause stress on his system! He needs to keep warm and dry and be close to his human family! Emotional support, and tender loving care are very important to decreasing stress!

Using Rescue Remedy is a good emotional balancer for humans and dogs. Available in health food stores, you can add 2-3 drops to his water daily for the next 6 weeks.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Thank you so much Dr. Tillman for all your expert advice. Could you please clarify a few things for me? You suggested that we discontinue the dog heartworm medicine. Would this be temporary or permanent? If permanent, how do I protect him against heartworm?

You also sugggested Vitamin C, "buffered", what does that term mean?

You mentioned alternating baths with an oatmeal shampoo. Does it need to be specifically for dogs, or can Aveeno Oatmeal bath be used on dogs as well? And just to make sure I am not making things worse with the Tea Tree Oil shampoo, it also contains Lemongrass by 4K9 Organic. Is this a good combo for his skin?

Upon your suggestion of a raw diet dog food, do you suggest Oreo go through the 7 day fast first that is discussed in one of the articles on this website, or is that only if I am making his own food? And what about the cooked eggshells for calcium? Should I give him this and at what amount or is it only if I make his own food which might need added supplements?

I should tell you that the recommended treatment from the conventional vet was Mitoderm dips, but I was smart enough to look into that before having it done. Do you agree that it will only further suppress the immune system. It sounds really harsh.

Lastly, at your suggestion of injectable Invermectin and B-vitamins plus B-12, is this something that I am to ask a conventional vet to allow me to administer myself, or does the vet have to do it?

Thank you so much for your time!!

Hi Shannnon,
Good questions! I will answer them in the order you asked:

1. For the heartworm prevention, Interceptor, stop it temporarily. Do not resume for at least 6 weeks, after the last Ivermectin treatments has been given.

Then continue at 45 day intervals.

2. Vitamin C is the same as Ascorbic Acid. Since dogs (and cats) have 10 times more hydrochloric acid in their stomachs than people do, giving them more acid in the form of vitamin C, or ascorbic acid, would not be good. Therefore, 'buffered' Vitamin C (i.e. Vitamin C for dogs) is a non-acid form of vitamin C. It is in the form of calcium ascorbate or sodium ascorbate. You can buy it as Mega C powder (which is for dogs, and the dosage is on the label) or ester C, which is for people. The dose is about 500-1,000 mg for a 50 lb dog. The Ester C only contains Vitamin C, no other vitamins.

Mega C is actually a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement with all of the vitamins and minerals needed by a dog or cat. It also contains a large amount of vitamin C. This product was created by a veterinarian. He noticed that in dogs or cats with compromised immune systems, they probably are NOT making enough of their own Vitamin C. So, he created this product, Mega C, to specifically help those animals with poor immune systems. You may notice that other dog and cat vitamins DO NOT contain any Vitamin C. This is because ALL animals except, humans, monkeys, guinea pigs, Mediterranean fruit bat and a few others (we need to have it in our diet every day) MAKE their own Vitamin C. Therefore, it is NOT added to dog or cat food, or dog or cat vitamins. It IS contained in RAW meat!

3. Oatmeal shampoo for dogs would be better than a 'human' oatmeal shampoo, such as Aveeno. Epi-Soothe shampoo is one good brand for dogs. Tea Tree oil shampoo with Lemongrass is useful for anti-fungal and anti-bacterial purposes, but does not necessarily help with itching like oatmeal shampoos. Using the Tea tree oil shampoo every time might dry out his skin. If you used it every other week, alternating with oatmeal shampoo, it would be more 'gentle', considering how unhealthy his skin is at this time with the mite infection (plus secondary bacteria).

4. Fasting for a dog with generalized Demodex may be deleterious to his health. At this time, he needs protein to help him heal, and I do not want him to stop eating! It would be better to gradually transition him from the dry food, to the canned.

Continued in Part 2...

Continuation from part 1 above:

5. All of the egg shells you have collected would only be needed if you were to make a home-prepared food and add the egg shells for the needed calcium in his diet. If he is to stay on a canned food, with the addition of a small amount of some raw meat, you would not need any extra calcium.

6. Mitaban dip is harsh! It would be better to treat with the Ivermectin.

7. Yes, the injections of ivermectin and the B-vitamin injections can be given at home, by you. Perhaps the first injection can be done at the vet hospital so you can see how it is given to Oreo sub-cutaneously. Then, have the doctor make up another syringe containing saline, or sterile water, and you give this injection to Oreo while the doctor watches how you do it. Of course, after 6 weeks of treatments, then you would need to return to the hospital for Oreo to have a skin scraping. This would let you know how many live mites are remaining, and if Oreo needs to continue with more injections.

Hope this clarifies some of your questions!

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Related Pages:
- Dog Skin Conditions,
- Dog Itchy Skin,
- Dog Skin Rash,
- Dog Skin Allergies,
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Skin Rashes, Marks, Spots, Lesions & Patches (including itchy skin and mange) Section.
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Hair Loss Section

Dr. Tillman,

For my 3rd and final wish, I mean question...so I better think carefully...ha ha ha (yea right, I can't only ask one question...it's always a whole series of them...do you have like an inquisitive mind plan where one could ask a question a day? 🙂

I already had some Ester C (human) so I gave him 500 mg of it today. They are like horse pills though, so what is your suggestion as to how to get him to swallow it? He hates taking pills. I put it in natural peanut butter, but he has even tired of that. My conventional vet had mentioned that there is a type of dog treat that you can put the pill into. But I don't know what all ingredients are in that so not sure if that would be taking a step backwards in him trying to heal.

Have you heard from others as to what their experience has been upon asking a conventional vet to do something other than what the vet has recommended? I'm just wondering what is going to be the response when I had said no to the Mitaban dips, but then tell them I want injections of Ivermectin and B-Vitamins + B12. Just wondered if the vet would look at me like, I'm the vet, you've come for my expert advice, you are not to give me yours.

If the vet is accommodating, is the injection given the same way and in the same location that a steroid is given (like I had been giving him of Depo Medrol before)? Just trying to avoid the $30 office exam if I can just pick it up instead.

Would a pill of Vitamin B + B 12 be as effective as an injection? I have human grade Stress-B-Plus. Wondering if this would be effective in place of the Rescue Remedy as well.

I live in a mostly rural area so there are no holistic vets in our area and probably not any in our whole state. I did find a locally owned pet store that does carry one of the raw diets you mentioned: Primal, but they only have 2 formulas: lamb and venison. They also carry Bravo which has sausage, buffalo, ostrich, salmon, and venison. And they also have Nature's Variety. In their refrigerated section, they have Fresh Pet which offers a line of daily fresh meats which include chicken, bison beef, salmon, and turkey. It says it is gently cooked so this is not raw. Any of these brands or specific meats you would not recommend I get? Should I stay away from the Fresh Pet since it is cooked, or only get it if I add some raw meat with it?

(continued below)

(continued from above)

How often should I change his diet from one meat to another? How many variety of meats should I offer him total so he gets a well rounded diet? Most of these meats also have vegetables and fruits in them. Should Oreo remain on a raw diet for life or only until the mange is cleared up? And do I slowly introduce the new diet, by say 3/4 old food first day, with 1/4 new food. Then start doing dry dog food a little less each day, with new raw food a little more each day, until it is only raw food?

With the Omega-3 Fish Oil, can that be human grade?

I had previously tried the Apple Cider Vinegar you mentioned, but put it on him directly and he acted like it was burning him and tried to lick it off right away. I had a cut that it got into and it burned very much. I did read on another site to dilute it in water. So maybe this might be too full-strength to put directly on a pet.

Well, I think I have definitely gotten my $9.95 worth and probably given you a headache. Thank you so much for your great advice and quick responses. I finally feel like I have some hope for Oreo!! 🙂

Hi Shannon,
Here are the answers to all of your additional questions!

1. Ester C-large tablets will have to be crushed to add to the food. It will have a 'tart' taste even though it is buffered and most dogs may not like it, so you must mix it in well. (That is a problem using human products, so it is much easier with Mega C, since it is already in a powder form and made for dogs.)

2.Asking a conventional veterinarian to abide by your wishes, may create a bit of friction and 'ruffle some feathers'. But Oreo is YOUR dog, and your main goal is to get him healthy in the safest way possible. By printing out all of our 'discussion' and including my background from the bio page, perhaps your conventional veterinarian will be more reasonable. I do not think any veterinarian wants to see an animal suffer. Also consider checking out this holistic veterinarian in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia.

You can also check out this page to find a holistic veterinarian near you.

3. The Ivermectin and B-vitamins are given subcutaneously (SQ). I do not know how you were giving the Depo-Medrol, SQ or IM (intra-muscular).

4. Injections of B-vitamins are more effective than oral. In fact, if you were to give the Mega C powder to Oreo, that also contains B-vitamins. But Oreo would benefit greatly from BOTH of them! Rescue Remedy would also be good. I would not substitute a B-vitamin for the Rescue Remedy.

5. All of the brand names of foods that you mentioned would be excellent... even the Fresh Pet. And just add some raw meat to it (no raw PORK or raw FISH.)

6. It would be fine just to alternate between 2 different meats, no need to make it more complicated. Three or four days on one package, until it is gone, then open another package of the other meat and feed it 3-4 days, and so on.

7. Yes, he should be on a raw (or close to it) diet FOREVER!
To transition him, your plan is a good one:
3/4 old food plus 1/4 new food for one week
1/2 old food plus 1/2 new food for one week
3/4 old food plus 1/4 new food for one week
Then onto all 'new food' all raw, or cooked plus some raw. If at any point, he refuses to eat the new 'combination' or he eats it and his stool becomes loose, return to the previous combination with LESS of the 'new food' for another week.

8. Omega 3 fish oils can be human grade.

9. Apple cider vinegar can sting if it is applied to raw or abraded skin, so diluting it 1/3 water 2/3 apple cider vinegar may be necessary.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Hi Shannon - I have been working in dog rescue for the past ten years - mostly in the Caribbean where people do not have the funds for extensive vet bills. Two simple tips that have really helped the dogs we have had adopted who have this type of mange: lots of protein -purina dog food isn't enough - just add a hard boiled egg to his food a few times a week. Lots of vitamin C. Check with your vet to see what the maximum dosage possible is for your dog.
Thank you for taking care of Samson. I wish you guys the best.

Hi Shannon,
In reference to the latest comment, regarding protein and Vitamin C, adding a hard boiled egg to the diet a few times per week is not a bad idea. Although in some cases it can cause gas, or slightly loose stool due to the extra fat from the yolk. Therefore, adding scramble egg whites would be fine.

For the Vitamin C, make sure that it is buffered Vitamin C, such as Ester C or the veterinary product called, Mega C. This one comes in a powder form, 3,000mg per tsp. For a 50-60 lb dog, they would need about 1,000-2,000 mg per day. (about 1/2 tsp daily, and the dose is printed on the label).

OrthoMolecular Specialties, Mega C Powder

Another good product for dogs with compromised immune systems, is this one:
Missing Link powder for dogs

Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Hi I am not very good at this but I ran across your question I know that you said oreo has red mange pretty bad and well my aunts dog holly has it pretty bad herself the borax and peroxide works well but you have to apply it once a week until the rash and redness and the sores heal but make sure you dont wash or rinse oreo with water and shampoo and also adding about 1oz of lavender oil to the borax and peroxide will HELP alot and If i were you I would start boiling chicken and rice and and get a few cans of mixed vegetables and mix it together for his new diet for awhile:) And PLEASE whoever at the top of this page that told you to stop giving him the heart guard pill they are WRONG.......... because animals definitely need their shots and especially their heart worm pill to keep them from getting anything else I hope everything works out for lil oreo!!!!:)

Dear Anonymous,
Here is my response to the original post regarding heartworm medication. The reason for stopping it while on the IVERMECTIN is because Ivermectin IS a heartworm preventive. (It is the main ingredient in Heartguard).

My Online Vet Response for Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Shannnon,
Good questions! I will answer them in the order you asked:

1. For the heartworm prevention, Interceptor, stop it temporarily. Do not resume for at least 6 weeks, after the last Ivermectin treatments has been given.

Then continue at 45 day intervals.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Your dog seems to have a sad life!! A few suggestions, change him to a raw diet with supplements (look on line) stop using topical flea control but do get advantage multi for mange and use every 2 weeks for 4 treatments for the mange then use organic flea control....once he is all cured make him a part of the family ...keep him in 🙂

June 2, 2013

Dear Anonymous,

Your suggestions are good ones, except for the use of Advantage-Multi, which contains both imidacloprid and moxidectin. Since Oreo is currently on Ivermectin (a form of moxidectin) to treat the mange, I would be very reluctant to add a second drug into the 'mix'.

Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

I just saw the date of the story and while my advice may not help shannon, hopefully it will help someone. My two year old German shepherd/dachsund mix was found thrown out of a vehicle. He had a broken leg and was severely malnourished. We started him on a purina brand food as well. Within a week he had vomiting and bloody diarrhea episodes. It took 2 months to get a diagnosis of IBS. We immediately switched food. Within 3 days the episodes stopped. We haven't had anymore in over a year. We use Pure Balance brand foods. Good luck

My comment is several years after you posted. With an adult dog with a case of demodectic manage, there's usually an underlying chronic health issue causing the dog's immune system to be weak thus allowing the mites to take over, and the vets always check for that. There have been instances where adult dogs were found with demodex without an underlying health issue, but it's been rare. Young dogs and puppies up to 1.5 years old can get demodex because their immune systems aren't completely mature yet and can't take control over the mites infestations. Also dogs 1.5yrs and younger with demodex have also been known to get better without treatment, depending on the severity.

The shelter in my city uses advantage multi weekly, and uses it off label for dogs with demodectic mange, and it has worked really well. I wouldn't combine advantage multi with ivermectin, though. When dogs with mange come to the rescue i volunteer with, the vet hospitals we use always prescribe antibiotics and ivermectin and any shampoos. Right now I have a temporary foster dog who just finished her ivermectin doses, antibiotics, and shampoos, but still has tender paws. A senior dog at the shelter was put on advantage multi after the foster dog started her ivermectin and other prescriptions, and the dog who was treated off label with advantage multi visually improved faster than the one on ivermectin. Now i have no scientific proof, of course, but this is just what i observed having seen the two dogs these many weeks.

Thank you all who had some great suggestions with my dog who previously had mange. He did pull through and we got it cleared up. Unfortunately, last year he died from his red blood cells not being utilized by his body. It happened suddenly within a period of 2 weeks and he was gone. My local vet tried everything she knew to do. I really miss Oreo, but I am thankful that he is no longer suffering in any way. I got to be with him as he passed on Mother's Day. Animals really do have a special place in our hearts!!

The rescue dog (4 year old Brittany) was found in a field with severe mange, critical condition, and immune system very poor. The shelter kept him for 5 months using scrapings as the key to knowing how the condition was being eased out and cleared. He is now clear and his fur has grown back. (I do not know which medicine / bathing was given to him). I can add omega 3, vit. c as described for dogs (buffered), He has been clear for over 5 weeks per the Shelter vets. My biggest question is that he will be here in 2 days and then my son will visit with his puppy - his puppy will be about 9 weeks old when he arrives and even though I know the 4year old is "Clear" - and I can start the better diet / supplement plan, having a puppy in the house at the same time for a few weeks might be a challenge. We have the ability to separate by using a wire "Kennel" but they will still be in close proximity...and likely touch each other's noses through the wire and so forth. I don't really want to separate them too much, but I can. I know the puppy still has much growing to do, so dog-pup play is out of the question due to puppy bone growth and so much more. Should I be concerned about anything related to them living in the same household for a few weeks, even though the rescue is totally clear and the puppy we will be "Babysitting" will be close by with some contact? thank you.

I personally have no idea since I did not have any other pets during the time Oreo had mange. Dr. Tillman from this website would be a great one to ask for that and she is really good about getting back to you in a timely manner. Hope everything continues to go well for Brittany.

March 25, 2015

Dear Anonymous,
For Brittany, if she has Demodectic mange (Demodex) that mite is NOT contagious to other dogs, humans cats or any other animal.

If she has Sarcoptic Mange, that mite IS contagious to other dogs, to people and to cats and other animals.

See our page on Dog Mange, https://www.organic-pet-digest.com/how-to-treat-dog-mange.html

From what you wrote, I suspect she has Demodex, which is NOT contagious. You wrote,
"Should I be concerned about anything related to them living in the same household for a few weeks, even though the rescue is totally clear and the puppy we will be "Babysitting" will be close by with some contact?"

No, you should not be concerned.

Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

I have two dogs buddy and buster. Buster is a Rhodesian Ridgeback with short hair and he gets allergy reactions to flea bytes, so he got Dermatitis and a Veterinarian online told me about Hibiclens (Chlorhexidine Gluconate solution 4.0%) it is an Antiseptic/ Antimicrobial Skin Cleanser and it's worked great on him.
Buddy my English Springer Spaniel has skin allergy's as well and so i have shampooed him with the Hibiclens after I 1st shampoo him with his regular shampoo, i use it like a rinse. I only use it when i see something coming on and it keeps them in check. 🙂
It's good for humans too, you can find it at any pharmacy department and it's an over the counter product.
We Love our Boys.