Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog

by Shannon Jackson
(Clarksburg, WV USA)

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My dog Oreo has demodectic mange confirmed through several skin scrapings under a microscope by a conventional vet on December 30th.

Oreo is part beagle/part blue tick, male, age 6. He was given Cephalexin Cap 500 Mg 100# of which I gave him 2 x day for 14 days. He was also given Posatex Otic Suspension 15gm for ears being infected inside (recurring problem).

I also administered Tritop for the tips of his ears to heal the scabs apparently caused by the mites as well.

He is an outdoor dog, almost exclusively, except due to his mange we have been bringing him into the garage at night and sometimes during the day due to the cold temperatures here in West Virginia. He has always had skin issues for many years (dry, itchy, very pink/red when it becomes inflamed).

Our previous vet would give him a Depo Medrol 40 mg/mi 5 mi injection. This would solve the itching for around a month and then back to same issue again.

He currently eats Purina Dog Food, takes a monthly heartworm pill, Interceptor, and from around March through October is given Frontline Plus for flea control. Do you think the Frontline is contributing to the skin problems?

And in regards to the heartworm pills, do you suggest I space this out from every 30 to 45 days?

He was due for his vaccines, but I held off thinking that his immune system is already suppressed enough, no more taxing on it. Could this contribute to it? Do you know anything that can be taken to rid the body of toxins from vaccines?

But this is the first time I've experienced his skin in this bad of shape. Started noticing it right after it got really cold in November. Saw that he was loosing hair in patches.

The Tritop, after me using it on him for 2 weeks, did finally cause the scabs on the tips of his ears to fall off. But as soon as I ran out of the Tritop, they returned

He is in such bad shape and I feel so helpless. I have read your articles about Demodectic Mange and how to cure it through diet. I have been supplementing his dog food with homemade cooked chicken and rice, throwing in some occasional fruits and vegetables.

I read on another holistic site where they suggested a raw food diet? What would this entail?

I can't seem to convince my husband that buying a $50 high quality dog food will prevent these types of problems along with large vet bills. What would be your top two choices of dog foods out there for a dog that has skin issues already?

I guess I am also skeptical that changing dog food alone will cure him. I tried to figure out exactly what to feed him from reading articles on this website and got very overwhelmed with the amount of supplements to ensure he gets a balanced diet. Again, my husband is not all about spending a lot of money on a dog, so I need to do things as economically as possible.

I've already saved 2 dozen eggshells to do the calcium supplement if needed. Could this benefit him? If so, how much do I give him daily?

How do you get an animal to eat raw or homemade food that he does not like the taste of? Just know he does not normally eat vegetables that I present to him.

Are you familiar with Silver Shield (Colloidal Silver) through Nature's Sunshine? We use that for our human illnesses and so I have tried it sporadically on Oreo, but didn't know if it would heal the scabs and open wounds or not.

My friend also gave me something naturally that is specifically for dogs' hot spots. I have been spraying this 1 to 2 x a day on his ear tips, top of his head, around his nose, and scabs on his back. So far, I've not noticed any improvement.

He is to the point now that he just tries to run from me when I try to help him. It seems like each day there is a new area on him that is bleeding.

So to give you an overview on where all the mange has attacked, it is on his back, sides, top of his head, cheeks, right above nose, tips of ears, neck, and legs (neck and legs do not have the scabs like the other areas do). The only thing that has seemed to work well so far is that last weekend I put him in a tub and bathed him with a natural shampoo that has Tea Tree Oil and then finished by applying a mixture of peroxide and borax. This does not get rinsed off. This has severly cut back on the itching. Would you recommend to continue with this and if so how many times a week or month should I be bathing him?

He has cedar chips for lining in his outdoor dog house. We replaced this in the fall before the mange. Do you suggest changing that out? Or at least spraying it with something?

Something he has been doing within the past year that I had not seen prior (but he was doing this before the mange) is many times when he sits, he holds one paw up. He got the tips of his feet run over a few months back, but the vet did not think anything was broken. He does not limp when walking normally. Vet thought maybe arthritis is setting in. What do you think? If so, what natural things do you suggest to help with this?

Up until the time that I bathed him last week, after spraying him and petting him, I would itch. Not to the point that it would cause redness on me, but I could just feel like the microscopic mites on me. Is that normal?

I know I have asked you a ton of questions. I'm so sorry, I've just researched this so much, but am very lost on what specifically I need to do for my dog. Thank you so much for your time.

God Bless, and thank you for this service for I feel I've exhausted what I know how to do.

Shannon Jackson

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Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog

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My Online Vet Response for Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Shannon,
Demodex in dogs, when it is generalized, as it is in Oreo, can be a difficult disease to treat! In fact, 30 years ago a dog with generalized demodectic mange was usually euthanized because there was no effective treatment, and it was not known that it was due to a suppressed immune system.

As you have already found out from all of the research you have done, supporting the immune system is THE most important part of treatment!! NO more dog vaccinations AT ALL for Oreo. If rabies is due, please seek out the help of a holistic veterinarian to see about getting an exemption form so Oreo can be 'excused' from being vaccinated.

Demodex mange is NOT contagious to other animals nor to humans! Oreo already had the mites on his skin. In fact, all animals (and humans) have bacteria, mites and other 'organisms' living on the skin. With a healthy immune system, these organisms do not pose a threat, and there are no sores or lesions created.

When the immune system is compromised, for example by a dry dog food diet, too many vaccinations, taking cortisone or steroids, or ALL of the above result in an over population of mites and bacteria because the immune system is too weakened to keep them in check.

The treatment you mentioned so far (antibiotics, and topical lotion for the ears) are not specific treatments for Demodectic mange. The ingredient that is in the dog heartworm prevention - Heartgard, ivermectin - is what needs to be given.

At this time, I do not have a completely holistic treatment plan for generalized demodex. Therefore, I will advise you to go to your conventional veterinarian for injectable Ivermectin. You will give one injection (similar to giving him an insulin shot) every TWO weeks. Usually, this will take up to 6 to 8 weeks, so you would need to get 3 or 4 injections. (The dose is 1/10 cc per pound of body weight. If Oreo weighs about 40 lbs, he would need .4cc per each injection.)

Fortunately, since Oreo is part Beagle and Bluetick hound, he is not one of the breeds that are allergic to Ivermectin.

In between the weeks that he gets an injection of the Ivermectin, he should have an injection of B-vitamins plus B-12. Give 1/2 cc B-12 plus 1/4 cc of B-vitamin complex, Sub-Q.

STOP the Interceptor (heartworm preventive) medicine.

DO NOT use the Frontline. It didn't cause the demodex, but there are less toxic flea and tick products available. See our page on natural dog flea treatments" for more information.

Continue the weekly to 2 times per week Tea tree oil baths, followed with the borax and peroxide. You might consider alternating with an oatmeal dog shampoo to help with the itching.

To be continued below....

Part 2 My Online Vet Response for Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

(Continuation of Response to Shannon, for Oreo)

Clean his ears with green tea two times per week. Do not use the 'conventional' ointments that contain cortisone. (Tri-top or Postex)

Dr. Richard Pitcairn, in his book Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, suggests that you "Apply fresh squeezed lemon juice, to the skin lesions." This helps acidify the skin and drive out the mites. If Oreo objects, you might try apple cider vinegar. And just apply it with a make-up sponge.

Dr. Pitcairn also suggests boosting the immune system by nutritional support with the addition of Vitamin C (buffered) 250-500 mg daily, (which is also available in raw meat, Zinc 15-30 mg daily, and Vitamin E 100 IU).

If the cost of Primal, Aunt Jeni's, Barf World, or some of the other raw diets are too expensive, then feed him canned - NOT dry - good quality dog food. Dog food that DOES NOT contain any artificial colors, preservatives, or by-products. Then you can add 1-2 TBSP of raw meat to each meal. DO NOT feed raw PORK or raw FISH. But you can include raw chicken, beef, turkey, or lamb.

If Oreo will not eat raw meat, you can cook it a little, so it is 'rare'. Be aware that the more it is cooked, the less Vitamin C will be available. Vitamin C is destroyed by heat.

He will also need Omega 3 fish oils for dogs added to his food, to help provide moisture, and to act as a natural anti-inflammatory. Add one 1,000 mg capsule to his food two times daily. This will benefit his skin and also any joint problems in his feet (or that foot he holds up).

As for the cedar chips in his outdoor dog house, would it be possible to make him an 'inside' dog? I do not think there is any problem with cedar chips, but being outside in the winter in West Virginia would definitely cause stress on his system! He needs to keep warm and dry and be close to his human family! Emotional support, and tender loving care are very important to decreasing stress!

Using Rescue Remedy is a good emotional balancer for humans and dogs. Available in health food stores, you can add 2-3 drops to his water daily for the next 6 weeks.

Finding a holistic veterinarian in your area would also be able to help guide you along the way.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Additional Questions
by: Shannon Jackson

Thank you so much Dr. Tillman for all your expert advice. Could you please clarify a few things for me? You suggested that we discontinue the dog heartworm medicine. Would this be temporary or permanent? If permanent, how do I protect him against heartworm?

You also sugggested Vitamin C, "buffered", what does that term mean?

You mentioned alternating baths with an oatmeal shampoo. Does it need to be specifically for dogs, or can Aveeno Oatmeal bath be used on dogs as well? And just to make sure I am not making things worse with the Tea Tree Oil shampoo, it also contains Lemongrass by 4K9 Organic. Is this a good combo for his skin?

Upon your suggestion of a raw diet dog food, do you suggest Oreo go through the 7 day fast first that is discussed in one of the articles on this website, or is that only if I am making his own food? And what about the cooked eggshells for calcium? Should I give him this and at what amount or is it only if I make his own food which might need added supplements?

I should tell you that the recommended treatment from the conventional vet was Mitoderm dips, but I was smart enough to look into that before having it done. Do you agree that it will only further suppress the immune system. It sounds really harsh.

Lastly, at your suggestion of injectable Invermectin and B-vitamins plus B-12, is this something that I am to ask a conventional vet to allow me to administer myself, or does the vet have to do it?

Thank you so much for your time!!

My Online Vet Response for Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Shannnon,
Good questions! I will answer them in the order you asked:

1. For the heartworm prevention, Interceptor, stop it temporarily. Do not resume for at least 6 weeks, after the last Ivermectin treatments has been given.

Then continue at 45 day intervals.

2. Vitamin C is the same as Ascorbic Acid. Since dogs (and cats) have 10 times more hydrochloric acid in their stomachs than people do, giving them more acid in the form of vitamin C, or ascorbic acid, would not be good. Therefore, 'buffered' Vitamin C (i.e. Vitamin C for dogs) is a non-acid form of vitamin C. It is in the form of calcium ascorbate or sodium ascorbate. You can buy it as Mega C powder (which is for dogs, and the dosage is on the label) or ester C, which is for people. The dose is about 500-1,000 mg for a 50 lb dog. The Ester C only contains Vitamin C, no other vitamins.

Mega C is actually a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement with all of the vitamins and minerals needed by a dog or cat. It also contains a large amount of vitamin C. This product was created by a veterinarian. He noticed that in dogs or cats with compromised immune systems, they probably are NOT making enough of their own Vitamin C. So, he created this product, Mega C, to specifically help those animals with poor immune systems. You may notice that other dog and cat vitamins DO NOT contain any Vitamin C. This is because ALL animals except, humans, monkeys, guinea pigs, Mediterranean fruit bat and a few others (we need to have it in our diet every day) MAKE their own Vitamin C. Therefore, it is NOT added to dog or cat food, or dog or cat vitamins. It IS contained in RAW meat!

3. Oatmeal shampoo for dogs would be better than a 'human' oatmeal shampoo, such as Aveeno. Epi-Soothe shampoo is one good brand for dogs. Tea Tree oil shampoo with Lemongrass is useful for anti-fungal and anti-bacterial purposes, but does not necessarily help with itching like oatmeal shampoos. Using the Tea tree oil shampoo every time might dry out his skin. If you used it every other week, alternating with oatmeal shampoo, it would be more 'gentle', considering how unhealthy his skin is at this time with the mite infection (plus secondary bacteria).

4. Fasting for a dog with generalized Demodex may be deleterious to his health. At this time, he needs protein to help him heal, and I do not want him to stop eating! It would be better to gradually transition him from the dry food, to the canned.

Continued in Part 2...

Part 2 for My Online Vet Response for Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Continuation from part 1 above:

5. All of the egg shells you have collected would only be needed if you were to make a home-prepared food and add the egg shells for the needed calcium in his diet. If he is to stay on a canned food, with the addition of a small amount of some raw meat, you would not need any extra calcium.

6. Mitaban dip is harsh! It would be better to treat with the Ivermectin.

7. Yes, the injections of ivermectin and the B-vitamin injections can be given at home, by you. Perhaps the first injection can be done at the vet hospital so you can see how it is given to Oreo sub-cutaneously. Then, have the doctor make up another syringe containing saline, or sterile water, and you give this injection to Oreo while the doctor watches how you do it. Of course, after 6 weeks of treatments, then you would need to return to the hospital for Oreo to have a skin scraping. This would let you know how many live mites are remaining, and if Oreo needs to continue with more injections.

Hope this clarifies some of your questions!

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Related Pages:
- Dog Skin Conditions,
- Dog Itchy Skin,
- Dog Skin Rash,
- Dog Skin Allergies,
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Skin Rashes, Marks, Spots, Lesions & Patches (including itchy skin and mange) Section.
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Hair Loss Section

Second follow-up to Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange
by: Shannon Jackson

Dr. Tillman,

For my 3rd and final wish, I mean question...so I better think carefully...ha ha ha (yea right, I can't only ask one question...it's always a whole series of them...do you have like an inquisitive mind plan where one could ask a question a day? :)

I already had some Ester C (human) so I gave him 500 mg of it today. They are like horse pills though, so what is your suggestion as to how to get him to swallow it? He hates taking pills. I put it in natural peanut butter, but he has even tired of that. My conventional vet had mentioned that there is a type of dog treat that you can put the pill into. But I don't know what all ingredients are in that so not sure if that would be taking a step backwards in him trying to heal.

Have you heard from others as to what their experience has been upon asking a conventional vet to do something other than what the vet has recommended? I'm just wondering what is going to be the response when I had said no to the Mitaban dips, but then tell them I want injections of Ivermectin and B-Vitamins + B12. Just wondered if the vet would look at me like, I'm the vet, you've come for my expert advice, you are not to give me yours.

If the vet is accommodating, is the injection given the same way and in the same location that a steroid is given (like I had been giving him of Depo Medrol before)? Just trying to avoid the $30 office exam if I can just pick it up instead.

Would a pill of Vitamin B + B 12 be as effective as an injection? I have human grade Stress-B-Plus. Wondering if this would be effective in place of the Rescue Remedy as well.

I live in a mostly rural area so there are no holistic vets in our area and probably not any in our whole state. I did find a locally owned pet store that does carry one of the raw diets you mentioned: Primal, but they only have 2 formulas: lamb and venison. They also carry Bravo which has sausage, buffalo, ostrich, salmon, and venison. And they also have Nature's Variety. In their refrigerated section, they have Fresh Pet which offers a line of daily fresh meats which include chicken, bison beef, salmon, and turkey. It says it is gently cooked so this is not raw. Any of these brands or specific meats you would not recommend I get? Should I stay away from the Fresh Pet since it is cooked, or only get it if I add some raw meat with it?

(continued below)

(Cont'd) Second follow-up to Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange
by: Shannon Jackson

(continued from above)

How often should I change his diet from one meat to another? How many variety of meats should I offer him total so he gets a well rounded diet? Most of these meats also have vegetables and fruits in them. Should Oreo remain on a raw diet for life or only until the mange is cleared up? And do I slowly introduce the new diet, by say 3/4 old food first day, with 1/4 new food. Then start doing dry dog food a little less each day, with new raw food a little more each day, until it is only raw food?

With the Omega-3 Fish Oil, can that be human grade?

I had previously tried the Apple Cider Vinegar you mentioned, but put it on him directly and he acted like it was burning him and tried to lick it off right away. I had a cut that it got into and it burned very much. I did read on another site to dilute it in water. So maybe this might be too full-strength to put directly on a pet.

Well, I think I have definitely gotten my $9.95 worth and probably given you a headache. Thank you so much for your great advice and quick responses. I finally feel like I have some hope for Oreo!! :)

My Online Vet Response for Additional Questions for Demodectic Mange
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Shannon,
Here are the answers to all of your additional questions!

1. Ester C-large tablets will have to be crushed to add to the food. It will have a 'tart' taste even though it is buffered and most dogs may not like it, so you must mix it in well. (That is a problem using human products, so it is much easier with Mega C, since it is already in a powder form and made for dogs.)

2.Asking a conventional veterinarian to abide by your wishes, may create a bit of friction and 'ruffle some feathers'. But Oreo is YOUR dog, and your main goal is to get him healthy in the safest way possible. By printing out all of our 'discussion' and including my background from the bio page, perhaps your conventional veterinarian will be more reasonable. I do not think any veterinarian wants to see an animal suffer. Also consider checking out this holistic veterinarian in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia.

You can also check out this page to find a holistic veterinarian near you.

3. The Ivermectin and B-vitamins are given subcutaneously (SQ). I do not know how you were giving the Depo-Medrol, SQ or IM (intra-muscular).

4. Injections of B-vitamins are more effective than oral. In fact, if you were to give the Mega C powder to Oreo, that also contains B-vitamins. But Oreo would benefit greatly from BOTH of them! Rescue Remedy would also be good. I would not substitute a B-vitamin for the Rescue Remedy.

5. All of the brand names of foods that you mentioned would be excellent... even the Fresh Pet. And just add some raw meat to it (no raw PORK or raw FISH.)

6. It would be fine just to alternate between 2 different meats, no need to make it more complicated. Three or four days on one package, until it is gone, then open another package of the other meat and feed it 3-4 days, and so on.

7. Yes, he should be on a raw (or close to it) diet FOREVER!
To transition him, your plan is a good one:
3/4 old food plus 1/4 new food for one week
1/2 old food plus 1/2 new food for one week
3/4 old food plus 1/4 new food for one week
Then onto all 'new food' all raw, or cooked plus some raw. If at any point, he refuses to eat the new 'combination' or he eats it and his stool becomes loose, return to the previous combination with LESS of the 'new food' for another week.

8. Omega 3 fish oils can be human grade.

9. Apple cider vinegar can sting if it is applied to raw or abraded skin, so diluting it 1/3 water 2/3 apple cider vinegar may be necessary.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us by clicking the like button at the top of the left margin. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Vitamin c and protein NEW
by: Anonymous

Hi Shannon - I have been working in dog rescue for the past ten years - mostly in the Caribbean where people do not have the funds for extensive vet bills. Two simple tips that have really helped the dogs we have had adopted who have this type of mange: lots of protein -purina dog food isn't enough - just add a hard boiled egg to his food a few times a week. Lots of vitamin C. Check with your vet to see what the maximum dosage possible is for your dog.
Thank you for taking care of Samson. I wish you guys the best.

My Online Vet Response for: Severe and Ongoing Demodectic Mange on Dog NEW
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Shannon,
In reference to the latest comment, regarding protein and Vitamin C, adding a hard boiled egg to the diet a few times per week is not a bad idea. Although in some cases it can cause gas, or slightly loose stool due to the extra fat from the yolk. Therefore, adding scramble egg whites would be fine.

For the Vitamin C, make sure that it is buffered Vitamin C, such as Ester C or the veterinary product called, Mega C. This one comes in a powder form, 3,000mg per tsp. For a 50-60 lb dog, they would need about 1,000-2,000 mg per day. (about 1/2 tsp daily, and the dose is printed on the label).

OrthoMolecular Specialties, Mega C Powder
http://www.belfield.com/megac226.php
--------------------------------------------------
Another good product for dogs with compromised immune systems, is this one:
Missing Link powder for dogs
http://www.missinglinkproducts.com/products/?catid=3
--------------------------------------------------
To find a holistic veterinarian in your area click on the link below
Click here to find a holistic veterinarian in your area. Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us
by clicking the like button at the top of the left
margin. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

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