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Dog's recurring diarrhea after multiple antibiotics treatments

by Leni
(Tokyo, Japan)

Larger than usual stool

Larger than usual stool

Larger than usual stool
Second half very soft with visible mucus
Max

We have a five-year-old golden retriever Max. Ever since he was a puppy he has always had issues with diarrhea.


For the entire first year of his life, he was repeatedly treated with antibiotics (at least one week every month) for diarrhea that kept returning. It would always start off with a larger than usual stool where the second half would be soft, yellow with mucus. This was usually followed by 8-12 hours of outbursts of increasingly watery diarrhea with mucus and sometimes blood.

Our vet could not find anything unusual in his stool so he would always prescribe the same antibiotic. After about a year, we were desperate.

I found that the cause was probably giardia and gave Max a course of Panacur for 7 days and then repeated that again after 2 weeks based on the regimen of greatdanelady.com. This really helped.

We had no major issues and he would only get a bacteria diarrhea every 3 months or so. I believe the cause of this could be the fact that we live in a big city and the contamination levels are likely very high or that he likes to scoff food/other dog faeces when on the walk when we are not watching.

In February this year, Max was diagnosed with mast cell tumor and underwent a surgical removal together with a two-month course of Prednisone. I decided I wanted to make his recovery as efficient as possible and decided to change his diet (I feed him 1 cup of Artemis Fresh Mix + 1/2 can of Osopure canned food every day).

Additionally he gets 3 K9 Immunity Plus treats, 2 capsules of Natrol Milk Thistle 525mg, 2 capsules of PB8 probiotic and 2 wafers of Dancing Paws Multivitamin & Mineral DAILY (based on your advice).

About one week after his surgery he got diarrhea. Larger than usual stool, second half very soft with visible mucus (pictures attached). He also vomited a few times.

I immediately picked up a sample and took it to the vet for testing. He found unusual long bacteria type (one that Max never had before) but he did not know the name. He prescribed 5-days of Doxycycline.

Two weeks later, the same issue returns. This time the vet suggested we have the bacteria type identified properly in a lab. A possible match could be a bacteria called "Clostridium Perfringens", however, I need to wait for a week for a confirmation from the lab. Max was given 10-days of Doxycycline today.

I see the possible cause of this could be him eating something bad outside, weakened immunity after Prednisone or food change (by adding canned food into his dry after surgery). It would not surprise me that his first year of life on antibiotics could have something to do with his cancer.

I would like to put an end to this and find supplements that could help his digestive tract become strong enough to fight off the hurdle of bacteria he encounters. Antibiotics may help short term but they seem to offer no solution long term.

1. PROBIOTIC - is PB8 potent enough for this? Would there be any benefit in switching to this (click here to see) or any other more potent formula?

2. RUNNIPOO - I just purchased this as recommended on your diarrhea page. Would this be strong enough to help? Is there anything similar I could give him every day to help fight bacteria and strengthen his digestion?

3. FOOD - Strangely he does seem to be more diarrhea-resistant on a diet that contains more fibre. Although this seems contrary to the diet prescribed to cancer patients. I was thinking about adding a couple of tablespoons of cooked rice into his meals. Does this make any sense?

4. TREATS - Max loves crunching on a piece of raw carrot or apple. He was always fine in the past but since his surgery giving him these somehow coincided with getting sick. Is it possible there is a connection?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks!

Comments for Dog's recurring diarrhea after multiple antibiotics treatments

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May 29, 2013
My Online Vet Response For: Dog's recurring diarrhea after multiple antibiotics treatments
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

May 29, 2013

Hi Leni,

For Max to have suffered for so long with diarrhea, which I suspect is from colitis, (inflammation of the colon), it was probably triggered by a reaction to vaccines.

Irritable or Inflammatory Bowel Disease can be immune mediated, secondary to 'vaccinosis'.

You did not state how young he was vaccinated, nor do I know the frequency that vaccines need to be given in Japan. But a chronic situation starting in puppyhood, is more often than not vaccine induced.

The bacteria that have been cultured, in my opinion, are 'contaminants', NOT the 'cause' of the diarrhea. Max's health and immune system have been suppressed with antibiotics and other drugs, as you have suspected. Culminating in February 2013 with a mast cell. Surgery is very suppressive, as is Prednisone.

Fortunately you have changed his food to something healthier, but you might want to go another step, and stop the DRY Dog food, Artemis Fresh Mix, and add in some raw meat to his canned Osopure. NO RAW PORK or RAW FISH. Grains and carbohydrates have been contraindicated for cancer, but if Max seems to benefit with the addition of cooked rice, I think it would be ok to add this to his diet.

You wrote,

1. PROBIOTIC - is PB8 potent enough for this? Would there be any benefit in switching to 'N-Zymes' or any other more potent formula?

PB8 is an excellent probiotic. You are not giving him enough. He needs to have 2 capsules TWO times daily.

2. RUNNIPOO - I just purchased this as recommended on your diarrhea page. Would this be strong enough to help? Is there anything similar I could give him every day to help fight bacteria and strengthen his digestion?

Runnipoo is a 'combination' homeopathic treatment with remedies of low potency, that would not be indicated in a case of vaccinosis. Max would benefit from the homeopathic remedy, Thuya 30C or 200C, (all of the combination remedies are 6C, which are too low).

The higher potencies, such as 200C, are available to holistic veterinarians. At this time, it would benefit you to seek the help of a holistic veterinarian rather than continuing with conventional treatment.

In the meantime, until you can locate a holistic veterinarian, you can give Max 30C Thuya, one dry pellet or one pellet dissolved in Spring water, by mouth one time daily for three days. Wait for 1-2 weeks before repeating, to monitor his response.

DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

TO BE CONTINUED

May 29, 2013
My Online Vet Response for: Dog's recurring diarrhea after multiple antibiotics treatments PART TWO
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Leni,

Here is the remainder of my response.

3. FOOD - Strangely he does seem to be more diarrhea-resistant on a diet that contains more fibre...although this seems contrary to the diet prescribed to cancer patients. I was thinking about adding a couple of tablespoons of cooked rice into his meals. How does that sound?

As I mentioned previously, I think that would be fine.

4. TREATS - Max loves crunching on a piece of raw carrot or apple. He was always fine in the past but since his surgery giving him these somehow coincided with getting sick. Is it possible there is a connection?

Raw apple, cantaloupe, or carrot would provide moisture, and some healthy fiber for his colon. I think that his system has been 'suppressed' to such an extreme that he is having difficulty dealing with healthy food.

AND, no more vaccinations.

Click here to find a holistic veterinarian in your area. Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman


DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

May 30, 2013
Follow up
by: Max

Dear Dr Tillman

Max was brought in from Australia to Tokyo as a 3 month old puppy. He had to clear vaccination on both sides. Japan required rabies vaccination once a year despite being rabies free country. After the earthquake in 2011, he had to get two rabies shots 2 weeks apart so we were able to leave the country and bring him back if needed.

I think this makes sense. Wrong diagnosis by vet, year of constant antibiotic treatments resulting in hampered immunity manifesting itself by more frequent bacterial infections. Every antibiotic treatment helps with the current bacteria overgrowth problem but leaves his immunity weaker going forward.

The benefit of antibiotics is that when his diarrhea starts, they make him feel better almost instantly (i.e. plug him up) as opposed to going on for days leaving him malnutritioned and dehydrated. It is really tough to deal with this living in a high rise apartment. I kept asking for other treatments but was told this was the only way.

I have spent hours searching for a holistic vet in Tokyo area but no luck. I believe this concept is very rare here. I did sent out a few emails to various homeopaths today in search of somebody who can help. Could you recommend anybody in the States? Perhaps we could work with them online?

It is very sad that the poor guy has not had a chance to recover from cancer treatment yet and he is already struggling with diarrhea having to take more antibiotics. I hope we can find a way to correct his health and stop this.

Any other suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

May 31, 2013
My Online Vet Response for: Dog's recurring diarrhea after multiple antibiotics treatments
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

May 30, 2013

Hi Leni,

Over-vaccination resulting in diarrhea is unfortunately rather common.

There are several homeopathic remedies that would be useful. The best one is called Thuya occidentalis, which comes from the white cedar. It is sometimes spelled, Thuja.

Here's what I suggest:

1. Make up a bottle of Thuya 12C by placing one pellet into a 2 oz glass eye dropper bottle and fill with Spring Water. If you do not have any 'health food' stores in Japan, you can order this on-line. A quick look at Amazon.com brought up this source by Boiron, http://www.amazon.com/BOIRON-USA-Occidentalis-Health-Beauty/dp/B0006NXFRQ.

2. Give Max, 1/2 eyedropperful by mouth, (usually when you fill the eyedropper it only goes up 1/2 way, that is how much he needs), TWO times daily for the next 3 weeks.

3. For 'quick' results to control the diarrhea if he is really bad, use Kao-Pectate. This is a combination of Kaolin (a type of clay) and Pectalin (derived from apples). DO NOT use any of the commercial products for humans that have aspirin listed in the ingredients. And do not use Pepto-Bismol (bismuth salicylate).

This is also sold on Amazon.com, but only comes in the gallon size!! Perhaps you can contact a local feed store, so you could avoid the shipping cost. Give Max 1-2 TBSP by mouth, every 8 hours for 2-3 days for diarrhea.
http://www.amazon.com/Durvet-Kaolin-Pectin-Kaopectate-Gallon/dp/B0002YF9T6/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_t_1_8AQA

4. Continue to give the PB 8 Acidophilus on a regular basis.

5. Follow my suggestions on diet in my previous post.

You wrote,

"Can you recommend anyone in the United States?"

You may be able to search the list below for a holistic veterinarian in the United States that could give you more specific advice.

Click here to find a holistic veterinarian in your area. Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us by clicking the like button at the top of the left margin. Thank you!

Related Pages:
- Dog Diarrhea Medicine,
- Dog Constipation Symptoms & Treatment,
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Diarrhea, Constipation and/or Digestive Problems Section


DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.







Jun 02, 2013
Update
by: Max

Dear Dr Tillman

I have managed to get hold of experienced homeopath in the area. I sent her your message above alongside with Max's story. Hopefully she can meet with is soon to see what can be done to improve Max's digestion.

I went to the vet yesterday for a check up on Max's cancer. I mentioned my aim to improve Max's health so he can live longer and diarrhea-free. He thinks there is a chance that Max's digestion is intolerant to either a particular type of food or even just levels of protein or fat. He explained this intolerance could cause changes in Max's intestine pH, lead to bacterial imbalance and overgrowth of bad bacteria which ultimately results in severe diarrhea.

I asked if there was a test we could conduct to first rule out individual types of foods. He said there isn't really a way to find out. I remember my neighbor had her dog tested before at a clinic nearby. How does this work? Is it or is it not possible to find out dog's allergies by conducting an appropriate blood test?

He suggested Max eats Eukanuba Veterinary Diet Intestinal for one month. If Max's diarrhea does not return during this time, we can very slowly start adding other foods and try to identify what causes problems. Despite this commercial dry food seems to be loaded with grains and meat by-products, I agreed.

I am not exactly sure what is the best way to go about adding other foods. Even on the high protein diet I was feeding Max, the incubation period before his diarrhea returned seemed to be around 2 weeks. Does this mean I should introduce one type of food at a time and stick with it for 2-3 weeks? Which foods would you start introducing first?

Also, have you heard about this probiotic before:
http://www.entirelypets.com/mitomaxsml90.html
I would love to get your opinion.

Thank you for your help, as always. Hope all is well!

Leni

Jun 04, 2013
My Online Vet Response for: Dog's Recurring Diarrhea after Multiple antibiotics treatments
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

June 4, 2013

Hi Leni,

As far as my understanding of a hypoallergenic diet, it would involve a diet that is restricted to a single protein very bland diet. And Max would need to be on this diet for at least 3-6 weeks. For example, you would feed him rice or potato plus cooked turkey.

If the diarrhea improves and stool returns to normal, then cautiously add one ingredient at a time, to see if he could tolerate it. In this way you would eventually restore him to a balanced diet.

I am not sure how the the Eukanuba veterinary intestinal diet would meet the requirement of a 'hypoallergenic' diet. The dry food has corn plus rice, egg, chicken and turkey all combined together. While the canned food contains chicken, fish, rice, corn, chicken liver, beef by-products, chicken byproducts,and egg.

http://www.eukanuba.co.uk/dog-food/eukanuba-veterinary-diets-intestinal-for-dogs

A veterinarian that is an internal medicine specialist, or a veterinary dermatologist, would be better to advise you on the types of tests that are available for food allergies. I do believe that there are blood tests that can test for allergies.

In the meantime, I feel that if you are interested in a holistic treatment, that you could start Max on the homeopathic remedy Thuya 12C and continue the PB 8.

It would not hurt to also give him an injection once or twice a week of .3cc B-vitamins plus 1 cc of Vit B-12 in the same syringe. (This is given subcutaneously, similar to an insulin injection.)

You asked about the 'MitoMax' probiotic, http://www.entirelypets.com/mitomaxsml90.html. I am not familiar with it, but it looks like an excellent product. I think it would be good to use it in combination with the PB8.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us by clicking the like button at the top of the left margin. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.




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