Chronic Infections on the both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth / muzzle

by Terri
(North Carolina, USA)

Just over a year ago my dog (a 70 lb lab/Shepard/chow/pit, etc. mix) began suffering from a terrible infection on the outside of his lower mouth (both sides). It would scab over and bleed - causing him pain, itching & suffering. The more the infection spreads, the bigger the scabs become and the more he bleeds. The area becomes very raw.

Initially, I would put warm compresses on it for as long as he would allow (30 seconds on a good day), but that did not work. The infection spread around the lower portion of his muzzle area, and he would scratch the scabs off (which included the fur attached to them). He has a black mouth, so it is difficult for the vets to see it (he is not a cooperative dog), and it seems they tend to minimize the severity of it.

I brought him to 2 vets over the past year, and he has been on several rounds of Cephalexin(?) for various lengths of time (once for 2 months); however, the infection would come back almost as soon as he finished the course of antibiotic. I have also used an antiseptic wipe that he barely tolerates (and only does because I insisted, but that seems cruel).

One vet said he suffered from a condition (cannot recall or pronounce the name) that is common to Shepards and that he may have to be on antibiotics for his entire life (he is now 12 1/2 years old) and/or that a 'scraping' would have to be performed. The other vet said that the particular bacteria involved may become immune to the antibiotic and suggested I try an injection (again, cannot recall name) that I would have to administer.

All I know is that my dog is suffering, I do not know what is wrong with him, and I cannot get a clear answer as to how to at least manage (if not cure) this constantly recurring infection.

I feed him twice a day in a glass bowl. His food consists of about 1/4 cup good quality dry food mixed with cooked chicken, green beans and two balls of a mixture I made up for him: (canned salmon (and sometimes tuna), ground flax, carrots and whatever other vegetable I may have (zuccini, broccoli, green beans, sweet potatoes..), oatmeal, barley and (sometimes) rice. I use use a food processor and then scoop little balls and bake them until firm - then refrigerate what I'll use over a few days and freeze the rest to use as needed.

I do give him rawhide on occasion, and I generally give him half a 'Milk Bone' dog biscuit after his walks (at least 3 a day). I also give him the yolk from my hard boiled eggs in the morning - though I just read on your site that this may cause an allergic reaction in dogs (please advise on this).


In any event, I am hoping for a holistic solution to my dog's torment. Jack has always been a happy dog; however, he has not been this past year. I should also note that this began just before I had to euthanize his Mom last June when she became very, very ill. We both still miss her terribly.

Also, within 2 weeks of me having to euthanize Belle, Jack had to have emergency surgery for an obstruction after he ate aluminum foil someone cooked with & neglected to keep out of his reach. He had a splenectomy at the same time when the operating vet found a nodule during the surgery (though he had the mouth infection prior to that).

Jack also is prone to skin tags and has about 5. One is on his eyelid. He developed those over the past few years, but they do not seem to bother him. He also hates to be brushed (despises it) and will always try to get away from 'the brush'.

He sheds profusely (he always has), and lately I have noticed clumps of fur that I can just pick off him. I do not see any 'hot spots' or other such areas on his body, however. He does need a dental cleaning, but, at the moment, affordability is an issue.

Overall my concern is the infection around the outside of his lower mouth that he continues to suffer from. I do not want to keep him on antibiotics (beyond the cost factor) if that will only serve to make the bacteria become resistant to it. I would obviously prefer to find the cause of the infection and eliminate it in holistic manner.

I've uploaded a photo of Jack (above), but I cannot get a good picture of the infected area. First, he will not cooperate and, second, where it is just now beginning to return, it is not clearly visible (I can feel it before I can see it). The specific location is outside his lower 'lips' below the canines. It starts there and spreads quickly to the corners of his mouth and below - it then becomes raw and scabby with black scabs.

I am so thankful for this opportunity. I have spent countless hours on the Internet trying to find some information on this, but I have not been able to find much of anything at all.

Comments for
Chronic Infections on the both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth / muzzle

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My Online Vet Response for Chronic Infections on both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth/muzzle
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Terri,

You wrote:
"The specific location is outside his lower 'lips' below the canines. It starts there and spreads quickly to the corners of his mouth and below"

The condition to which you are referring, with Jack, is called LIP FOLD DERMATITIS. Basically it is due to poor dog dental condition combined with excessive lip folds in this area, where saliva may drain from the mouth, becoming trapped between the skin folds, harboring yeast and secondary bacteria that result in the scabs that spread below his mouth.

You are correct in connecting the events that would have caused him stress (his mother was euthanized), which would then decrease his immune system. Removing his spleen would definitely be a HUGE stress to his immune system, and noting the skin tags, his shedding and loss of hair in clumps, are all signs of a poor immune system.

Ok, here are my suggestions:

1. He does need a teeth cleaning. But you might try to start with some better tartar control treats. NO MORE RAWHIDES, and NO MORE MILK BONES.

If he has some yeast causing the problem you need to minimize carbohydrates or sugars in his diet. That is what yeast thrives on. There are many tartar control treats available. But Jack needs to like them and chew on them, and to be able to digest them ok, and have a normal stool. AND they need to work to CLEAN his teeth!! Greenies Smart-Treats is a good option.

2. To help get rid of the yeast, add apple cider vinegar to his food two times daily, about 1/2 to 1 tsp. Ideally, it would also be good to apply it to the areas on Jack's lip fold areas, where the scabs are located. But since he is SO sensitive about that, then just put it into his food.

3. Use RAW chicken not cooked (The only raw meats to AVOID would be fish and pork.) Raw meats will help improve Jack's immune system, help his skin heal, and help give him a healthier hair coat.

4. Instead of flax, use Omega 3 fish oil for dogs. Add 500mg to 1,000 mg two times daily to his food.

TO BE CONTINUED IN PART TWO

My Online Vet Repsonse for Chronic Infections on both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth/muzzle PART TWO
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Terri,
Here is Part Two with the continuation of my answer:

5. Decrease the grains in the diet, since they are a big source of carbohydrates.

6. All of the vegetables you are using are great.

7. It would be healthier to use the entire egg, not just the yolk. Add in one cooked whole egg, to his food, one to two times per week. He should be able to tolerate that.

8. He needs to have acidophilus added to his food two times daily (This will replace the beneficial bacteria in his GI Tract that was lost when he had antibiotics.)

9. More specific immune supplements include:
Immuplex from Standard Process. Give him one capsule opened and sprinkled onto his food two times daily) and Mega C powder (OrthoMolecular Specialties -
http://www.belfield.com/megac226.php)

10. NO MORE VACCINATIONS. Find a holistic veterinarian to write an exemption form, if he is due for any shots. Also, a holistic veterinarian may have some other suggestions, homeopathic remedies, etc. more specific to Jack's constitution, since he will be able to see Jack in 'person.'

To find a holistic veterinarian in your area click here:
find a holistic veterinarian in your area

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Thank You!
by: Terri

I ended my initial post by expressing my gratitude for this site, and I want to begin this one by reiterating my appreciation. Truly. Somehow I knew that if I did not find the underlying 'holistic' reason for Jack's issues soon, I would be losing him too.

I already applied the Apple Cider vinegar to the area, and, surprisingly, Jack didn't protest at all. I knew that this was good for humans (and I have used it myself over the years), but I had no idea it would be as beneficial to my dogs. I wish I knew this for Belle (I think her last immunization is what made her so ill that I ultimately had to euthanize her to end her terrible suffering....still makes me cry thinking about my sweet girl).

I will no longer give Jack the rawhide and, until I can replace them with the tartar control treats you suggest, I will reduce his 'after walk treats' to a nibble (he will poke me with his paw until I give him his 'treat'). I have ordered the other products online and look forward to helping him return to good health.

I will replace the cooked chicken with raw chicken. However, where I am reducing the grains, I will have to increase the amount of chicken. I make every effort to only buy chicken (I am a vegetarian) that has been treated humanely, but this is more costly. Therefore, are you aware of any company/farm where I can buy humanely raised and slaughtered chicken in greater portions?

And beef is okay to feed him raw as well? Is hamburger or steak mixed in with his food okay just to give him a variation - or should I stick with the chicken only?

Once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart. I wish I found this site a year ago.

Terri

My Online Vet Response for Chronic Infections on the both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth/muzzle
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Terri,

You are very welcome. As for a location for humanely raised chickens, I am not familiar with the North Carolina area. Perhaps you could search online? But you do not have to feed ONLY raw chicken, it would be perfectly ok to feed raw beef, turkey, or lamb if you wished.

DO NOT feed him any RAW PORK or RAW FISH.

And when you are decreasing the grains in the diet, you will increase the protein, this is very important to help him heal and to improve his immune system. You can also increase the vegetables in his diet, as the grain portion is decreased.

To also aid in decreasing any stresses in the environment, such as fly biting problems, fleas or ticks, you should use a more natural products. One such product is called cedarcide or Evolv, made from cedar oil.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us by clicking the like button at the top of the left margin. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.

Related Pages:
- Dog Dental Hygiene & Mouth/Gum/Teeth Problems,
- Ask a Vet Online Library - Dog Mouth, Teeth & Gums Section

Humanely Raised Chickens
by: Administrator

Hi Terri,

I did some searching and was able to find the following resource regarding humanely raised chickens in North Carolina: Eatwild

Just click on the map at the top or the link that says "Eatwild North Carolina map" to find a location near you.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

P.S. We're so happy to hear that our site and Dr. Tillman's advice has been useful. If you use Facebook, would you mind spreading the word by "liking" us by clicking the Like button at the top of the left margin? Thanks!!

possibly Lupus NEW
by: Christy Patterson

Did your vet test him for Lupus?

My Online Vet Response for: Chronic Infections on the both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth/muzzle NEW
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Christy,

Thank you for your suggestion. Lupus is one of the autoimmune diseases that will affect the muco-cutaneous junctions, especially around the lips.

Regarding your comment on having Jack tested for Lupus, (foliaceous or vulgaris), even if the diagnosis came back positive, I would still treat Jack for his underlying immune deficiency. Treating the patient for the symptoms he is exhibiting, NOT by the disease name, is what holistic practitioners are doing. Of course, if Jack is not responding to 'superficial' diet changes, and the additions of supplements, then I would suggest that Terri seek the help of a holistic veterinarian.

To find a holistic veterinarian in your area click on the link below
Click here to find a holistic veterinarian in your area. Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us
by clicking the like button at the top of the left
margin
. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.







LIP FOLD DERMATITIS NEW
by: Cheryl

Hi,
THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this!! I have a yellow lab mix with the SAME problem. Our vet told us to just "keep at it, try to keep ahead of it" by cleaning with peroxide, warm salt water, etc. He never said whether diet, or stress (she gets bad separation anxiety), could be an issue. I am going to try the apple cider, change her dry dog food to a better, meat-based one and give raw chicken, lamb, beef or turkey once in a while, along with possibly giving a brewer's yeast supplement. She already takes PhyCox supplement. Will also quit giving Milk Bones. Again, THANK YOU for your help!

My Online Vet Response for: Chronic infections on the both sides of my dog's exterior lower mouth/muzzle NEW
by: Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

Hi Cheryl,
Glad you found our site, and hopefully the recommendations will also help your dog. Although, if your dog is not responding as expected, then seeking the help of a holistic veterinarian would certainly be a prudent course of action!

To find a holistic veterinarian in your area click on the link below
Click here to find a holistic veterinarian in your area. Another resource for vets knowledgeable in homeopathy is AVH.org.

Please keep us posted by coming back to this page and clicking the 'click here to add your own comments' link below.

Take care,
Dr. Carol Jean Tillman

P.S. If you've found this service or our web site helpful, please "Like" us
by clicking the like button at the top of the left
margin
. Thank you!

DISCLAIMER: This educational advice is based on the depth of your question and the picture you submitted. The above should never replace the advice of your local veterinarian, as they have the ability to evaluate your dog in person.







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